INterested to see what everyone thinks.

Personally I think any trademark that anyone recognises is better than trying to establish a new one. "Risc OS Compatible"? Who refers to their "IBM Compatible" as such?
This is important, I think, because all the Risc OS/Arm related technologies constitute a platform. Just like Apple's Mac OS/Apple architecture/ PPC(Gx), Sun's Solaris/Sparc, and even Amiga's (old) Amiga OS/Paula,etc hardware and all the Amiga specific hardware that was built.

The vast majority of people out there using computers are doing so on a system which runs Windows and x86 based architecture and peripherals. They don't call there computers IBM compatibles or even Wintel boxes - they call them PC's.
I know that reality is against them on using that term, so don't get narky.
People will say PC or Mac, or PC or Apple rather than a description of it's operating system and hardware architecture.
Furthermore (wow, I can't belive I just said "futhermore"), a logo and trademark is much more recogniseable and memorable than mere text. When you were last at the grocer's, did you see the word "apple" and instantly think of computers?
Anything that simplifies recognition helps advertising helps knowledge of your product helps spead the user base.

Which is what we all want, surely.

Hamish.

So it's best to ose RiscOS as the platform, maybe ARM, too.

If you have a look on the platform of the IBM compatibles - it's a clearly defined hardware base and an clearly defined operating system (DOS - because windows is NO operating system, it's a GUI).

We all have a clearly defined operating system (RiscOS), but still NO clearly defined hardware base. Will RiscOS mean DEBI, PCI, Microbus, ISA? Will we still rely on VIDC/MEMC or will there be any other rhing??

As long as we have so much difference, we can't "create" our system's brand with a catchy name. Or RiscOS Ltd. creates one with the next release of RiscOS...

We are RISC OS users using ARM based hardware, we use RISC machines and run RISC OS, simple isn't it?

We have RISC Machines with ARM processors and we are RISC OS Users.

and i like RISC OS ! very different from Windows and Linux ehehehe :-)

Members of today's RISC OS/Acorn community are well aware of how much innovation Acorn were into, but we need to find a brand-identity that will get across the right image to the public of today. Unfortunately (IMO) the Acorn one is not going to do this.

I'd be happy to be proven wrong though...

[Edited by 6 at 00:37, 25/06/2000]

As to importance of brandname/logo combinations with respect to co-branding, product conglomeration and market mindshare, offhand I can't think of a single IT company who doesn't use them.( Intel Inside, Works With Windows 95, Java logos, Apple logo's, Powered by Amiga, Linux logo's,...)

The Acorn logo already has market recognition (regardless of whether you think that's neccesarily a good thing or not), even leaving that aside, the acorn is a brilliant marketing brand, everyone in the whole world would know it, a stylised version is instantly recognisable and is intrinsically non-confronting and non-threatening.
Viewed in relation to these values, just saying "Risc Os", in my opinion, doesn't cut it.

Hey! Just of the top of my head:

"Acorn:From Little Things Big Things Grow ... "

;)
Hamish

RiscOS on the other hand is much more worth saving.
Give me RiscOS on PC hardware and I'll be in hog heaven!
Probably

The Acorn logo is stylish, adaptable, already known and just sounds better than RISC OS. The fact that people do link Acorns to schools should be used to our advantage. Loads of parents would buy Acorn if that's what Johnny used at school AND they were convinced that the market was developing.

Acorn is an established name and it makes more sense to use a name that's recognised by some rather than try and use one that is recognised by none. There isn't the money to come up with a new name, logo and then pay for a huge campaign.

RISC OS machines have advanced slightly since ten years ago and this is what people need to know.

We need advertising!!!

Remember that running certain tasks the RPC comes close to the performance of PCs while only using 16MHz RAM, a slow system bus, and with only 32K of cache (as against 100MHz RAM a 33MHz system bus and 256K of cache on the PC). I think people will be very pleasantly surprised when the Millipede finally launches.

Where I would disagree with Michael is in the area regarding Acorns and education. If you market a machine as a "kiddies" machine it won't be taken seriously. Acorn seemed to avoid competing with the PC when they certainly had an advantage (for example in 1987 a 4MHz ARM2 powered (no cache, very slow main ram) was timed as TWICE AS FAST as a top end IBM PS2-Model 80 (386, with off chip cache, faster RAM than the ARM and clocked 4 times faster) and yet Acorn failed to promote it.

Even in the time of the 486 the ARM3 (at 25MHz) could outperform the 486 at 66MHz, the ARM running 13.5Mips compared to the 486's 12Mips. Windows was bog slow and the (then new) RiscOS ran rings about it. Yet you had the ARM high end workstations pitched at parents of 4 year olds !

Advertisment IS required, it needs to address the misconceptions about the RiscOS platform. It must show that they are EASIER to use, MORE RELIABLE, less expensive to maintain, MORE IMMUNE to viruses and that software packages are generally less expensive than on PCs.

If I was running an AD campaign I'd just run a 1GHz Pentium and 233MHz SA-RPC and boot them both with the tag line "which you would rather work on". Use a stop watch to emphasise the point. People would expect the PC to be first up (wrong). Dismiss the perceptions about the Acorn by directly allowing people to see them in action. Get machines into high street stores (even by lending a few to high profile stores), do short TV campaigns. The iMac sold and it doesn't even have a floppy for god sake and its clock rate is a lot lower than the PC (funny they never mention that and still sell !). When demoing the Acorn use the fastest one available (when the millipede is ready the choice will be a very easy one) and don't sell them as kiddie machines - they most certainly are not.

With the education aspect, the machine, as we all know, is IDEAL for schools and colleges. Special promotions through schools, allowing parents to purchase machines at discounted prices would be a great way of penetrating the mainstream. Acorn machines still dominate somewhat, mainly because schools can't afford to 'upgrade'. Advantage should be taken of this.

Also, children ought to be taught computing, not how to use a specific Microsoft product. That is wrong and is not what they ought to be doing. There is no such thing as an Industry Standard. Companies use whatever system is suitable for the job, often writing their own propriety software.

At the moment, the Imago is the way forward with the motherboard issues. Price remains to be seen. However, the Cerilica is to start at £2000 and is full of other mega expensive items, so maybe it won't be as high as some might think.

I think that Annraoi's advertising idea would be a good one. I think the computer should be platform should be promoted at parents through schools and at the general public in a seperate campaign.

Finally someone seems to have some ideas on how to get things moving. Unfortunately I'm quite certain that no company on the RISC OS market has enough money to start a serious marketing campaign that people would notice.

And to stay on subject: I think Acorn is dead and gone as a trademark for the RISC OS community - Acorn is no more and will not be. In my opinion a new name should be found for RISC OS, something more pronouncable and smooth and more marketing friendly and that should be the name used for the entire community.

Just a thought,

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