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This got me thinking about space games again |
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andrew (16:14 16/12/2010)
qUE (17:15 16/12/2010)
Phlamethrower (19:36 16/12/2010)
filecore (20:03 16/12/2010)
trevj (20:34 16/12/2010)
VincceH (20:28 16/12/2010)
filecore (20:38 16/12/2010)
VincceH (00:30 17/12/2010)
filecore (07:12 17/12/2010)
VincceH (15:06 17/12/2010)
epistaxsis (23:10 17/12/2010)
qUE (00:13 17/12/2010)
Acornut (15:13 18/12/2010)
filecore (18:00 18/12/2010)
andrew (12:25 21/12/2010)
qUE (12:54 21/12/2010)
filecore (13:16 21/12/2010)
arawnsley (16:47 21/12/2010)
Acornut (21:30 21/12/2010)
epistaxsis (21:51 21/12/2010)
filecore (22:12 21/12/2010)
epistaxsis (23:14 21/12/2010)
arawnsley (23:43 21/12/2010)
VincceH (10:10 22/12/2010)
VincceH (10:23 22/12/2010)
filecore (10:47 22/12/2010)
VincceH (15:22 22/12/2010)
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Andrew |
Message #116055, posted by andrew at 16:14, 16/12/2010 |
 Handbag Boi
Posts: 3439
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Supposedly Olympus Mons on Mars.
[Edited by andrew at 16:15, 16/12/2010] |
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qUE |
Message #116056, posted by qUE at 17:15, 16/12/2010, in reply to message #116055 |
Posts: 187
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Was it this sort of thing you were thinking about?
MODE12:OFF
vw=1280:vh=1024:vd=256:vf=vd*.7:sc=200:DIMsx(sc),sy(sc),sz(sc):sc-=1:ORIGINvw>>1,vh>>1
FORc=0TOsc:sx(c)=RND(vw)-(vw>>1):sy(c)=RND(vh)-(vh>>1):sz(c)=RND(vd):NEXTc
REPEAT:FORc=0TOsc
z=sz(c)/vf:GCOL0:PLOT69,sx(c)/z,sy(c)/z
IFsz(c)=1THENsz(c)=vd ELSEsz(c)-=1
z=sz(c)/vf:GCOL7:PLOT69,sx(c)/z,sy(c)/z
NEXTc:UNTIL0
[Edited by qUE at 17:18, 16/12/2010] |
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Jeffrey Lee |
Message #116057, posted by Phlamethrower at 19:36, 16/12/2010, in reply to message #116056 |
 Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot stuff
Posts: 15100
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This got me thinking about space games again For me, it was the video on this page. |
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Jason Togneri |
Message #116058, posted by filecore at 20:03, 16/12/2010, in reply to message #116057 |
Posts: 3868
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For me, it was drooling over (and considering asking a silversmith acquaintence to replicate) these. |
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VinceH |
Message #116059, posted by VincceH at 20:28, 16/12/2010, in reply to message #116057 |
 Lowering the tone since the dawn of time
Posts: 1600
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This got me thinking about space games again For me, it was the video on this page.
That just reminds me that it's about time I watched all of Babylon 5 again.
Which I will do once I've finished watching all of Jeremiah. |
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Trevor Johnson |
Message #116060, posted by trevj at 20:34, 16/12/2010, in reply to message #116058 |
Member
Posts: 660
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For me, it was the video on this page. Youtube says "note: the mission Helios will most likely not be finished or released to the public."
So is this, with the FS2 mod something different?
For me, it was drooling over (and considering asking a silversmith acquaintence to replicate) these. Anyway... For me it was this puzzle. |
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Jason Togneri |
Message #116061, posted by filecore at 20:38, 16/12/2010, in reply to message #116059 |
Posts: 3868
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Which I will do once I've finished watching all of Jeremiah. Ugh. Babylon 5 has almost infinite rewatch value (seasons 2, 3, and 4, and the second half of season 5 once Byron is dead), and I also enjoyed the first three movies and the first two parts of the spin-off The Lost Tales. The other movies were okay and Crusade was dire but barely watchable.
However, everything else that JMS has done has been pretty sub-par. I have a copy of his book, Delicate Creatures, which is fairly okay though. I tried watching Jeremiah, hoping for a B5-esque arc and the gripping thrillingness of it, but really, I couldn't even finish the first season. It was just so dire and while I'm normally happy with nudity, the topless bar girls just seemed gratuitous and pointless. The acting was terrible and the plot was childish and contrived. It really killed my belief in JMS, even more than Crusade ever did (and getting rid of Christopher Frank's music for A Call To Arms was a pretty big mistake, while I'm on the topic. Epic sci-fi space battles set to twinkly windchime music? No thanks. I'll take orchestral scores any day). |
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qUE |
Message #116062, posted by qUE at 00:13, 17/12/2010, in reply to message #116057 |
Posts: 187
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"Swifty also took it upon himself to rewrite the HUD system, eliminating several old annoyances (like the ugly stretching that occured whenever someone used a resolution greater than 1024x768)"
See, now my BBC BASIC starfield was leagues ahead :P
/me strops off
[Edited by qUE at 00:13, 17/12/2010] |
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VinceH |
Message #116063, posted by VincceH at 00:30, 17/12/2010, in reply to message #116061 |
Lowering the tone since the dawn of time
Posts: 1600
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Which I will do once I've finished watching all of Jeremiah. Ugh. Babylon 5 has almost infinite rewatch value (seasons 2, 3, and 4, and the second half of season 5 once Byron is dead), and I also enjoyed the first three movies and the first two parts of the spin-off The Lost Tales.
Which reminds that I still haven't even purchased The Lost Tales!
The other movies were okay and Crusade was dire but barely watchable. I thought Crusade had a lot of potential, but due to its early cancellation barely had time to get going - and the studio interference helped mess things up more than a little. Did you read the unproduced scripts for the next two or three episodes that were at one point available to read online?
However, everything else that JMS has done has been pretty sub-par. I don't think I've ever seen anything he's done other than Babylon 5 (and spin offs) and Jeremiah. I may have done, obviously, but not knowingly.
I tried watching Jeremiah, hoping for a B5-esque arc and the gripping thrillingness of it, but really, I couldn't even finish the first season. Interesting. Especially given that, if memory serves, season one of B5 was actually quite arc-light on first viewing, and many episodes were very self contained (other than a few notable exceptions, such as the first time we saw a Shadow vessel; a genuine jaw dropping, edge of the seat, "WTF was that?" bit of TV). On second or subsequent viewings, it's easy to see more of the arc-related stuff that was there, but it's just so subtle.
And many of those seemingly self contained episodes were very weak. I can well remember conversations with others where I said things like "the only reason I'm still watching is because it's on when I can't be arsed to do anything else." I'm glad I did continue, but I could so easily have given it up.
It was just so dire It should be dire. It's depicting a post apocalyptic world*, fifteen years after society fell after a disease wiped out the adults, leaving children to fend for themselves.
* Which it should be noted instantly helps it gain my favour.
and while I'm normally happy with nudity, the topless bar girls just seemed gratuitous and pointless. So gratuitous that I've barely noticed them on this viewing.
Hmm. I like topless bar girls. So if I've barely noticed them, that does indeed make them pointless. 
I'm sure I could make a joke here about it not being pointless, likening nipples to points in some amusing - or lewd - way, but I won't.
It really killed my belief in JMS, even more than Crusade ever did I think that may be a part of the problem. Having watched B5 and knowing just how good it eventually turned out to be, both Crusade S1 and Jeremiah S1 were sure to be disappointments, because their first season's are being held up in comparison to the whole of B5, instead of just its first season.
There is plenty of seemingly arc related stuff in Crusade season one - but it's all to do with the plague, and as such a great big red herring. It was to be resolved early in its intended run, with a more significant arc taking over - how much of that we had clues to (subtle or not) I don't know.
And the same applies to Jeremiah season one: there is a very plainly visible arc, which itself seems to come to a head (though not resolved) with the season one cliffhanger, so I suspect the arc we were seeing would have gone the same way, resolved by the end of season two, to be replaced by a firmer one.
(and getting rid of Christopher Frank's music for A Call To Arms was a pretty big mistake, while I'm on the topic. Epic sci-fi space battles set to twinkly windchime music? No thanks. I'll take orchestral scores any day). With you 100% there. |
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Jason Togneri |
Message #116064, posted by filecore at 07:12, 17/12/2010, in reply to message #116063 |
Posts: 3868
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It was just so dire It should be dire. It's depicting a post apocalyptic world*, fifteen years after society fell after a disease wiped out the adults, leaving children to fend for themselves.
I was meaning in terms of its acting, writing, and certain technical elements. Yes, the tone of the show is meant to be dire, but this is the same as the difference between a bad actor, and a good actor playing the role of a bad actor. The show is meant to depict dire events. The show itself isn't meant to be dire.
It really killed my belief in JMS, even more than Crusade ever did I think that may be a part of the problem. Having watched B5 and knowing just how good it eventually turned out to be, both Crusade S1 and Jeremiah S1 were sure to be disappointments, because their first season's are being held up in comparison to the whole of B5, instead of just its first season.
Yes. You keep mentioning B5's S1 and I keep avoiding it. I know it's kind of apples-and-oranges, but then again, both Crusade and Jeremiah came a long time after B5 S1, when JMS had presumably had a lot of time to learn from his earlier mistakes. I know that Crusade was unfinished, there was studio interference, and so on. I still happen to think that JMS just got a bit lucky that he did B5 so well, as he also made some particularly horrible late-show decisions (I know that season 4 was rushed and season 5 sort of tacked on due to the studios), but seriously, Byron? Ugh.
And as for the apples-and-oranges thing: sure, you can't just jump straight into whatever is the new series' equivalent of the Shadow War (well actually, some movies and series have done more or less just that; if done well, it works well) but even still, it didn't seem he'd learned anything from the rest of B5. Just because its own first season was slow and annoying, doesn't mean he has to start the first season of all his other shows the same way, surely?
All just my opinion, of course. |
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VinceH |
Message #116065, posted by VincceH at 15:06, 17/12/2010, in reply to message #116064 |
Lowering the tone since the dawn of time
Posts: 1600
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It was just so dire It should be dire. It's depicting a post apocalyptic world*, fifteen years after society fell after a disease wiped out the adults, leaving children to fend for themselves.
I was meaning in terms of its acting, writing, and certain technical elements.
I knew that. Really. 
There are some terrible set pieces (such as the comms room at Stargate Command, which featured in the episode I watched last night - all dark except around the equipment in a way that suggests "we couldn't be bothered to build a complete set for this room - this is the only important bit"), but most of the scenes are set outside in run down areas, deserted roads, and such like and those are fine.
I wonder how much of dodgy sets were down to budget constraints, though?
As for the acting, yes, there are some poor performances - but the main lead and main support seem fine to me; the problem is in some of the supporting cast. This, again, is on a par with my recollection of early B5. (And in that, one of the leads was a bit naff IIRC. If I stand this plank of wood next to Michael O'Hare as Commander Sinclair, could you tell the difference between them?)
All of that aside, I'm going to say it doesn't matter. If there's a story I like (and there is, as I pointed out, since it's a post apocalyptic story, and that's pretty much my staple diet. The only thing that could make it better for me would be a good smattering of the walking dead), then I can look past dodgy acting, crappy sets, and even plot holes (which there are) and just enjoy the bigger picture.
It really killed my belief in JMS, even more than Crusade ever did I think that may be a part of the problem. Having watched B5 and knowing just how good it eventually turned out to be, both Crusade S1 and Jeremiah S1 were sure to be disappointments, because their first season's are being held up in comparison to the whole of B5, instead of just its first season.
Yes. You keep mentioning B5's S1 and I keep avoiding it. I know it's kind of apples-and-oranges, but then again, both Crusade and Jeremiah came a long time after B5 S1, when JMS had presumably had a lot of time to learn from his earlier mistakes. I know that Crusade was unfinished, there was studio interference, and so on. I still happen to think that JMS just got a bit lucky that he did B5 so well, as he also made some particularly horrible late-show decisions (I know that season 4 was rushed and season 5 sort of tacked on due to the studios), but seriously, Byron? Ugh.
Please stop swearing. I know this is the playpen, but saying B***n is too strong even for here. 
Actually, I'm going to go out on a limb here (bearing in mind that it's been a very long time since I've last watched either B5 or Crusade) and say that I think Crusade's unfinished S1 beats B5's hands down. I do reserve the right to change my mind when I get around to watching them again, though.
I'm not going to try comparing Jeremiah with it because it's a completely different beast - and, anyway, the whole post apocalyptic setting instantly causes bias with me.
All just my opinion, of course. Natch. |
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keith dunlop |
Message #116066, posted by epistaxsis at 23:10, 17/12/2010, in reply to message #116065 |
Posts: 159
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Being a big fan of B5 I actually find S1 the most enjoyable to watch!
JMS being forced to introduce an all-american-hero still pisses me off to this day.
Having said all that making Sinclair into Valen episode still gives me the horn 
B5 would have been so much better if JMS's arc had gone the full 5 series as opposed to S4 ending up being S4 & 5 crammed into one 
Apart from HRH Gaiman's episode S5 ended up being shite |
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Blind Moose |
Message #116067, posted by Acornut at 15:13, 18/12/2010, in reply to message #116055 |
 No-eye-deer (No Idea)
Posts: 487
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Yeah, well your 'pic' reminds me more of this! |
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Jason Togneri |
Message #116069, posted by filecore at 18:00, 18/12/2010, in reply to message #116067 |
Posts: 3868
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Yeah, well your 'pic' reminds me more of this! Crikey. Highest rated comment: "When I saw this as a kid, the part where the guy get ripped apart gave me nightmares for months."
Um. "When I saw this as a kid"? It came out in 2000! How do they let people so young onto the internet? And why do people so young get to watch movies where people get ripped apart? Or am I just old now? |
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Andrew |
Message #116081, posted by andrew at 12:25, 21/12/2010, in reply to message #116069 |
Handbag Boi
Posts: 3439
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Yes, I really liked Red Planet. Ghosts of Mars seemed good at the time but on watching it again seemed tongue-in-cheek.
There was another Mars film I think as well at around that time or maybe it was the Star trek Voyager episode ("One small step" I think). |
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qUE |
Message #116083, posted by qUE at 12:54, 21/12/2010, in reply to message #116081 |
Posts: 187
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Yes, I really liked Red Planet. Ghosts of Mars seemed good at the time but on watching it again seemed tongue-in-cheek.
There was another Mars film I think as well at around that time or maybe it was the Star trek Voyager episode ("One small step" I think). Ghosts of Mars was an awful movie. But then, John Carpenter movies are a bit hit and miss. |
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Jason Togneri |
Message #116084, posted by filecore at 13:16, 21/12/2010, in reply to message #116083 |
Posts: 3868
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I always enjoy movies about exploration teams being sent to Mars, preferably set in the near future (more so if they somehow include zombies). You might enjoy reading this short retrospective: http://io9.com/365572/what-killed-the-mars-movie-fad |
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Andrew Rawnsley |
Message #116085, posted by arawnsley at 16:47, 21/12/2010, in reply to message #116081 |
R-Comp chap
Posts: 600
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The three mars movies that I'm aware of (came at once) were the Val Kilmer Red Planet one (bought the DVD on a whim, was "ok"); De Palma's Mission to Mars (not bad, bit smarmy) and Ghosts of Mars (cheese). They're all worth a look-see, but I doubt anyone would rank them on their "all time" sci fi list.
Glad I'm not the only B5 fanboy around |
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Blind Moose |
Message #116088, posted by Acornut at 21:30, 21/12/2010, in reply to message #116085 |
No-eye-deer (No Idea)
Posts: 487
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... rank on their "all time" sci fi list. I think my number 1 would have to be 'Galaxy Quest'  |
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keith dunlop |
Message #116089, posted by epistaxsis at 21:51, 21/12/2010, in reply to message #116085 |
Posts: 159
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Glad I'm not the only B5 fanboy around heh - I ended up with this:
http://images-eu.amazon.com/images/P/B000B7KXEU.02.LZZZZZZZ.jpg
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Jason Togneri |
Message #116091, posted by filecore at 22:12, 21/12/2010, in reply to message #116089 |
Posts: 3868
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Glad I'm not the only B5 fanboy around heh - I ended up with this:
http://images-eu.amazon.com/images/P/B000B7KXEU.02.LZZZZZZZ.jpg
I had the entire fucking set on VHS. All of B5, all the movies, and the Crusade boxset. No way was I buying it all again on DVD just to change formats, so I pirated it.
That said, I still find pre-collection copies of it on old VHS tapes (the wife is going through some 200 of them, with VCRs hooked up to video capture cards if there's anything unique or special). Remember when Channel 4 started screwing around with the scheduling, and you never knew what time it would be on - or even which day, any given week? Made it murder to set the VCR.
EDIT: if I recall correctly, they started showing it during Big Breakfast at some point (season 4?) and it had commercial breaks and the annoying BB logo in the corner. Aargh!
[Edited by filecore at 22:14, 21/12/2010] |
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keith dunlop |
Message #116092, posted by epistaxsis at 23:14, 21/12/2010, in reply to message #116091 |
Posts: 159
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Glad I'm not the only B5 fanboy around heh - I ended up with this:
http://images-eu.amazon.com/images/P/B000B7KXEU.02.LZZZZZZZ.jpg
I had the entire fucking set on VHS. All of B5, all the movies, and the Crusade boxset. No way was I buying it all again on DVD just to change formats, so I pirated it.
I didn't (see below) so I bought it!
That said, I still find pre-collection copies of it on old VHS tapes (the wife is going through some 200 of them, with VCRs hooked up to video capture cards if there's anything unique or special). Remember when Channel 4 started screwing around with the scheduling, and you never knew what time it would be on - or even which day, any given week? Made it murder to set the VCR.
EDIT: if I recall correctly, they started showing it during Big Breakfast at some point (season 4?) and it had commercial breaks and the annoying BB logo in the corner. Aargh!
well I watched all of them in real time on C4 so I don't know about this |
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Andrew Rawnsley |
Message #116093, posted by arawnsley at 23:43, 21/12/2010, in reply to message #116091 |
R-Comp chap
Posts: 600
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Heheh, I too had the VHS tapes, pre-ordered from WH Smith as I recall back in the day. Watched them all twice and lent them to friends. One guy just returned "the good tapes" a couple of months back.
I found a guy on the market who was paying (a few years back) 2ukp per tape. I carted the whole lot in, he gulped, and I used the cash to pick up the DVDs Still not got Crusade DVDs tho (only tape).
Still, the DVDs converted the Mrs into a B5 fangirl, so it's all good!
Funnily enough, another RISC OS company guy just bought B5 universe too. It seems to be something of a common thread! |
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VinceH |
Message #116094, posted by VincceH at 10:10, 22/12/2010, in reply to message #116091 |
Lowering the tone since the dawn of time
Posts: 1600
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EDIT: if I recall correctly, they started showing it during Big Breakfast at some point (season 4?) and it had commercial breaks and the annoying BB logo in the corner. Aargh! It was the 'final five' - C4 showed most of season 5 earlier that year, but not the final five episodes. I forget why - possibly because their broadcast was also delayed in Overpuddle.
C4 broadcast those five episodes around Christmas - each one being initially shown in the morning, during Big Breakfast, and repeated in the early hours the following (?) morning. Most fans, who were well and truly hooked on the show (unsurprisingly) watched it during Big Brother - we couldn't wait, bearing in mind the wait wouldn't be until the repeat; due to its ridiculous time, most opting for that would be recording it to watch even later still.
It wasn't just the Big Breakfast logo - we also had their stupidly large clock obscuring the picture in some instances. I think that was mainly during the end titles, and they received a lot of complaints and promised not to obscure it for the very last episode. A promise they reneged on, so you had things in the titles like:
"Created by J. Michael Stra08:55:47"
They also spoiled the mood of the final episode by taking the piss somewhat. I distinctly remember them extracting it from one of their own crew - a cameraman? - who was obviously a big fan and was emotially embroiled in the show, with tears in his eyes at the end of that episode.
One of the best science fiction TV shows of the time, ruined by inconsiderate scheduling muppets. |
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VinceH |
Message #116095, posted by VincceH at 10:23, 22/12/2010, in reply to message #116094 |
Lowering the tone since the dawn of time
Posts: 1600
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C4 broadcast those five episodes around Christmas - each one being initially shown in the morning, during Big Breakfast, and repeated in the early hours the following (?) morning. I've just checked. It was in fact "The Bigger Breakfast" - the programme broadcast during holiday periods, later in the morning. The repeats were Sunday evenings - so a progressively long wait for each episode in that final batch of five for those who chose not to put up with the clock and logo (both of which it seems were shown throughout - I thought it was just the logo throughout). |
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Jason Togneri |
Message #116096, posted by filecore at 10:47, 22/12/2010, in reply to message #116095 |
Posts: 3868
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Yep, all of that sounds familiar. I had forgotten about (blocked out?) the gigantic clock. However, I seem to also recall random scheduling changes - perhaps my memory plays tricks, or maybe it was the change into the Bigger Breakfast slot that I'm thinking of. Either way, I recall it being an awful inconvenience at the time. |
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VinceH |
Message #116097, posted by VincceH at 15:22, 22/12/2010, in reply to message #116096 |
Lowering the tone since the dawn of time
Posts: 1600
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You're absolutely right about the seemingly random scheduling changes, which I think affected seasons 4 and 5. I distinctly recall discussing it at the time.
It was just those final five that ended up being shown during Bigger Breakfast - which under the circumstances felt like C4's schedulers having a good old laugh at the expense at everyone who complained about what they'd done up to that point. |
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