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The Icon Bar: The Playpen: Sequels
 
  Sequels
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Jason Tribbeck Message #53926, posted by tribbles at 16:32, 30/4/2004, in reply to message #53915
tribbles
Captain Helix

Posts: 929
IMO remixes can, if done "well" provide a refreshing / quirky / funkier version of another song.
I second that.

A friend of mine said that he once had a tape of Pet Shop Boy's Disco album, which was remixes of some of the earlier things. I decided to buy it for him (he'd lost the tape), and also bought Disco 2 and Disco 3, which is some of their more later stuff.

I **really** like Disco 2 (the other two aren't bad).
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I don't have tourettes you're just a cun Message #53927, posted by [mentat] at 18:08, 30/4/2004, in reply to message #53923
[mentat]Fear is the mind-killer
Posts: 6266
That's not allowing for the storage medium becoming corrupted. Memory is not infallible, it can degrade with time, be physically damaged or be overwritten by another, false, version.
ok, I will allow that the storage medium can be damaged, and therefore corrupted. What an unpleasant thought :(
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I don't have tourettes you're just a cun Message #53928, posted by [mentat] at 18:10, 30/4/2004, in reply to message #53924
[mentat]Fear is the mind-killer
Posts: 6266
Eminem vs. Bob the Builder was my favourite. There are also some great not-funny remixes - I really like "Song 2 Smack My b***h Up", which is Blur's "Song 2" mixed in with Prodigy's "Smack My b***h Up". And of course DJ Dangermouse's "Grey Album", which mixes Jay Zee's "Black Album" and the Beatle's "White Album" into something completely new; no new sounds at all have been used that can't be found on the two source albums, but the result is a unique new meme.
There's also been a spate of different lyrics to the tune of a well known Nirvana song, some of which seem to 'work' really well. Missy Elliot was one. Another resulted in the amusingly titled "Smells like booty". :)
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Adrian Lees Message #53955, posted by adrianl at 04:38, 2/5/2004, in reply to message #53907
Member
Posts: 1637
OK, I've watched the end of Revolutions... I still don't go for "Machines! APUs! Explosions!..." but it's interesting to me that there really are people like yourself who do.

IMHO Revolutions tries also to be inspirational at the end, though falls short of the ending to The Matrix, which I suppose is my point. I should probably steer clear of sequels because there are no new ideas to be found here, just extra details (in the form of 'fleshing out the world of the matrix'), a lot of CGI and special effects for their own sake (deliberately done in such a way that you're /supposed/ to notice them!).
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Jeffrey Lee Message #53961, posted by Phlamethrower at 14:37, 2/5/2004, in reply to message #53955
PhlamethrowerHot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot stuff

Posts: 15100
OK, I've watched the end of Revolutions... I still don't go for "Machines! APUs! Explosions!..." but it's interesting to me that there really are people like yourself who do.
:E

IMHO Revolutions tries also to be inspirational at the end, though falls short of the ending to The Matrix, which I suppose is my point.

I should probably steer clear of sequels because there are no new ideas to be found here, just extra details (in the form of 'fleshing out the world of the matrix')
True. To me, the end of The Matrix can only lead onto one of a few things:

1. A long drawn out struggle with the machines, slowly wrestling the Matrix from their control (Since there's no way they could take it over/shut it down in one go without killing 90% of the population off)
2. A big battle with the machines, started by the machines themselves. Humans would never start a big battle for the reason given above (Plus they don't have the resources to), but machines have nothing to lose if they wipe out the resisting humans. There are only really two outcomes to this - the machines win and humanity is destroyed, or the battle is drawn and both sides are left weakened (Once again, humans would never strike the death blow because they'd be condemning billions to death). Admittedly I wasn't too hot on the idea of there being a truce, but the way they developed Smith in Reloaded means that that's the only real option because the machines need Zion intact if they are to survive the next rogue agent.

To me, reloaded and revolutions are just playing out the logical ending to The Matrix - so I have no complaints about them. However, if you go to sequels looking for something new all the time, then you will be disappointed.

a lot of CGI and special effects for their own sake (deliberately done in such a way that you're /supposed/ to notice them!).
We're now entering the age where CGI, if done properly, can be unmistakable for real events. I'd have been very disappointed if the CGI was crap, but if they can do it right then I see no reason for them to use it to its full effect :)
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Phil Mellor Message #53965, posted by monkeyson2 at 14:56, 2/5/2004, in reply to message #53961
monkeyson2Please don't let them make me be a monkey butler

Posts: 12380
We're now entering the age where CGI, if done properly, can be unmistakable for real events. I'd have been very disappointed if the CGI was crap, but if they can do it right then I see no reason for them to use it to its full effect :)
No, it's getting stupid, and disappoints. In the original roman epics if there was a massive crowd sequence you knew that they'd got that many extras there. Now they have five blokes wearing different hats that are cut and pasted over the scene. Technically it might be good, but it's unimpressive cinematography.

I felt the over the top CGI worked in the Matrix BECAUSE it was set in a computer world. (I haven't seen 3 so this may actually be incorrect...). But in, say, Pearl Harbour, the bombs-eye-view sequences didn't feel right. They didn't look unrealistic because of crap rendering or modelling; they looked unrealistic because you simply couldn't do it with a real camera (no matter the expense) so it was obviously fake.

And take evil monsters. In old films it was obviously fake because it was a man in a suit. In new films it's obviously fake because it's a detailed three headed mass of teeth, hairs and gloop. You still have to suspend your disbelief. At least with the man in the suit you knew it existed physically, and in the same room as the actors at the same time. This is why Jim Henson was king.
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Jeffrey Lee Message #53967, posted by Phlamethrower at 15:22, 2/5/2004, in reply to message #53965
PhlamethrowerHot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot stuff

Posts: 15100
No, it's getting stupid, and disappoints. In the original roman epics if there was a massive crowd sequence you knew that they'd got that many extras there. Now they have five blokes wearing different hats that are cut and pasted over the scene. Technically it might be good, but it's unimpressive cinematography.
True, but some bits simply can't be done that way (Thousands of sentinels swarming round in a giant cave while getting shot at by a hundred or so APUs?).

I felt the over the top CGI worked in the Matrix BECAUSE it was set in a computer world. (I haven't seen 3 so this may actually be incorrect...).
They've used plenty of different techniques over the years - there's a load of behind the scenes stuff about it on the Revolutions DVD. E.g., in The Matrix the bullet time bits had to be done using lots of individual stills cameras aranged round the actors in a green room. This would then be superimposed on a 3D model of the scene they're in. In Reloaded and Revolutions though, they'd go the whole hog and use 3D models of everything. It is quite easy to tell who's real and who's not (especially on a 2nd sitting), but there aren't many scenes with CGI people in and if they are CGI then that's because it's the only way they could do it (E.g. the fight in Reloaded with Neo vs. lots of Smiths). The main brunt of the CGI in Revolutions is with the big battle between the sentinels and the APU's - although they did use a lot of model work for it, (e.g. hundreds of dead sentinels falling out of holes, the drilling machines cutting through bits of the dock, big things crashing into other big things, etc) there's simply no way they could have had thousands of sentinels swarming round inside the dock without using CGI.

But in, say, Pearl Harbour, the bombs-eye-view sequences didn't feel right. They didn't look unrealistic because of crap rendering or modelling; they looked unrealistic because you simply couldn't do it with a real camera (no matter the expense) so it was obviously fake.
Yes, that does ruin the immersion a bit. The only time they do stuff like that in the Matrix films is when there are fight scenes in the matrix though, which is often acompanied by slow-motion and lots of bending of physics. I'm not worried about the camera angles though, I'm more worried that the things they have the characters doing are so out of this world that it's hard to believe that they really are doing it. You have no idea whether the things they're doing are easy or hard for them, so you don't get any emotion out of it :|

And take evil monsters. In old films it was obviously fake because it was a man in a suit. In new films it's obviously fake because it's a detailed three headed mass of teeth, hairs and gloop. You still have to suspend your disbelief. At least with the man in the suit you knew it existed physically, and in the same room as the actors at the same time. This is why Jim Henson was king.
If you're looking for what's real in this world then you're obviously not going to believe a lot of what you see. However, if you look for what *could* be real then you'll believe a lot more. For example, the hovercraft are large and quite unwieldly. A lot of detail has been put into them (e.g. electricity sparking off of the hover pads), which gives the sensation that it is possible for them to exist. If machines were allowed to develop it further then they'd soon come up with something like a sentinel. Some concessions have to be made, as always, but most of it is believable.
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Mark Scholes Message #53969, posted by mavhc at 17:29, 2/5/2004, in reply to message #53965
Member
Posts: 660
> No, it's getting stupid, and disappoints. In the original roman epics if there was a massive crowd sequence you knew that they'd got that many extras there.
Or had a load of cardboard cutouts, or puppets, or put a big wall in the middle of the chariot race arena to reduce Extra costs.

> I felt the over the top CGI worked in the Matrix BECAUSE it was set in a computer world. (I haven't seen 3 so this may actually be incorrect...).
Depends whether you think the CGI in the real world sections was OTT.

> But in, say, Pearl Harbour, the bombs-eye-view sequences didn't feel right. They didn't look unrealistic because of crap rendering or modelling; they looked unrealistic because you simply couldn't do it with a real camera (no matter the expense) so it was obviously fake.

But you can't have a camera flying through a window in Citizen Kane, and real people's POV isn't in a giant crane shot.

> And take evil monsters. In old films it was obviously fake because it was a man in a suit. In new films it's obviously fake because it's a detailed three headed mass of teeth, hairs and gloop. You still have to suspend your disbelief. At least with the man in the suit you knew it existed physically, and in the same room as the actors at the same time.
What about Jurassic Park 3 say, two massive dinosaurs fighting, half model, half cgi.

Godzilla man-in-a-suit wasn't in the same room as the actors

> This is why Jim Henson was king.

But you can't have 20 ft tall creatures, they must be people on stilts.

He was of course king, but that's like a fundamental contanst, no need to state it.
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Richard Goodwin Message #54016, posted by rich at 10:25, 4/5/2004, in reply to message #53965
Rich
Dictator for life
Posts: 6828
And take evil monsters. In old films it was obviously fake because it was a man in a suit. In new films it's obviously fake because it's a detailed three headed mass of teeth, hairs and gloop. You still have to suspend your disbelief. At least with the man in the suit you knew it existed physically, and in the same room as the actors at the same time. This is why Jim Henson was king.
So what you're saying is, Ray Harryhousen was a charlatan because you wanted a man in a suit doing the skeleton battle or giant statue in Jason and the Argonauts?

Outside. Now.
________
RichGCheers,
Rich.
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Jason Togneri Message #54019, posted by filecore at 10:43, 4/5/2004, in reply to message #54016

Posts: 3868
Jason and the Argonauts
Ahh now there was a good film... I was named Jason for him, you know, my namesake is a hero :) (my parents liked Greek myths at that point in time).
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Tony Haines Message #54022, posted by Loris at 11:34, 4/5/2004, in reply to message #53965
madbanHa ha, me mine, mwahahahaha
Posts: 1025
No, it's getting stupid, and disappoints. In the original roman epics if there was a massive crowd sequence you knew that they'd got that many extras there. Now they have five blokes wearing different hats that are cut and pasted over the scene. Technically it might be good, but it's unimpressive cinematography.
To take this to its logical conclusion, you shouldn't like any non-documentary films because you know they're not real.

But in, say, Pearl Harbour, the bombs-eye-view sequences didn't feel right. They didn't look unrealistic because of crap rendering or modelling; they looked unrealistic because you simply couldn't do it with a real camera (no matter the expense) so it was obviously fake.
Actually, I'd have thought you could, using a real ship, a dud bomb, a sacrificial camera and either some fast transmitters or an armoured box. Oh, and some string.

And take evil monsters. In old films it was obviously fake because it was a man in a suit. In new films it's obviously fake because it's a detailed three headed mass of teeth, hairs and gloop. You still have to suspend your disbelief. At least with the man in the suit you knew it existed physically, and in the same room as the actors at the same time. This is why Jim Henson was king.
Why do you care whether the thing projected on the screen really existed or not?

And I think CLITORIS would have something to say about your stereotyping of monsters.

Bring back claymation, thats my favourite.
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Jason Togneri Message #54023, posted by filecore at 11:39, 4/5/2004, in reply to message #54022

Posts: 3868
Bring back claymation, thats my favourite.
Morph!

I made a claymation once, with some clay and a video camera with a remote control, we pressed RECORDPAUSERECORDPAUSERECORD and so on, getting a frame or two each time. Well, we were only 12 or so, and it worked. I think I still have it on video somewhere...
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Phil Mellor Message #54024, posted by monkeyson2 at 12:09, 4/5/2004, in reply to message #54016
monkeyson2Please don't let them make me be a monkey butler

Posts: 12380
So what you're saying is, Ray Harryhousen was a charlatan because you wanted a man in a suit doing the skeleton battle or giant statue in Jason and the Argonauts?
No, I'm saying that whether the skeleton battle was done with men in suits or models or cgi, it's still unbelievable. But for different reasons.

Outside. Now.
|fish|
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John Hoare Message #54042, posted by moss at 15:27, 4/5/2004, in reply to message #54024

Posts: 9348
CLITORIS
:)
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Adrian Lees Message #108377, posted by adrianl at 01:09, 20/9/2008, in reply to message #51012
Member
Posts: 1637
Can't help feeling that Cadbury's is now guilty of the same.... their first ad with the drum-playing gorilla was genius, but now - having seen the(/a?) sequel - it seems somehow slightly spoiled.
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Tony Haines Message #108385, posted by Loris at 22:57, 21/9/2008, in reply to message #108377
madbanHa ha, me mine, mwahahahaha
Posts: 1025
Was that new footage or did they just play a different song over it?

I do like the racing airport vehicles though.
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Hugh Message #108692, posted by Hughus at 19:41, 6/11/2008, in reply to message #108385
AA refugee
Posts: 36
Xenon II was better than Xenon I
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